House passes bill to sue OPEC over oil prices

[BlueWahooChambordDevil]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Spuds</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yes unleaded 87 has under gone a revolution. You scratch your paper, I'll deal with the ICEs. </div></div>
gas hasnt but the technology we use in cars has

emissions and gas mileage for example were things that nobody thought about then but are now becoming more and more regulated everyday

look at the CAFE regulations and what has changed since it was first started in 1975.....and how its changed since......then tell me that nothing has changed

then look at emmissions standards and EPA regulations since then and tell me its still the same

this is what happens when you let these nutjobs control your policy.......you wind up backed into a corner

How about this one- the DOD is thinking about buying jet fuel made from coal and the story goes on to tell about the diesel fuel- 3700 barrels a day. The first batch of jet cost 1 and 1/2 times the going rate, TEST batch , limited amount. The price will drop once the plant goes into operation, and since it was December, it should now be equal to the price anyway.
GILBERTON "? John W. Rich Jr., who's been trying to get a coal-to-clean fuels project off the ground in Schuylkill County for 14 years, said he saw the future Monday as he watched an Air Force jet complete its first transcontinental flight using synthetic fuel.
"I was very much impressed,"? Rich, president of WMPI, Gilberton, said Wednesday.

The demonstration was another step toward making the U.S. less dependent on foreign oil, a goal President Bush stressed in his last State of the Union speech. Rich said he's hoping it further encourages the U.S. Department of Energy to give him the green light to build his plant in Mahanoy Township.

Its tanks half-filled with standard jet fuel and half with a synthetic, coal-derived fuel, the C-17 Globemaster, a cargo aircraft, flew from McChord Air Force Base, south of Tacoma, Wash., to McGuire Air Force Base, south of Trenton, N.J., said Sgt. Kelly White, McGuire public affairs spokeswoman.

The test flight came on the 104th anniversary of the Wright Brothers' first sustained, controlled flight in a powered aircraft.

"And this is another historic first,"? Rich said.

"This test flight of a C-17 powered by synthetic fuel is another demonstration of the Air Force's commitment to the president's vision of the U.S. becoming less dependent on foreign oil,"? stated a press release from the secretary of the Air Force public affairs.

The flight from McChord to McGuire stretched 2,090 miles, White said.

The Air Force bought 290,000 gallons of the synthetic fuel from a Shell Houston plant in Malaysia at a cost of $3.41 per gallon, said Paul P. Bollinger Jr., special assistant to the assistant secretary of the Air Force for Installations, Environment and Logistics. If this synthetic fuel is bought in greater volumes, the price will decrease, said a spokesman from the Department of Public Affairs at McGuire.

"The chemistry of it is the same as what we'll be making,"? Rich said.

A gallon of traditional jet fuel this week cost about $2.31, according to the Air Force Times.

The Air Force is the largest consumer of aviation fuel in the Department of Defense, according to White and the Air Force Times.

The Air Force has been working with the Department of Energy National Energy Technology Laboratory on alternative energy projects like this, said Bernadette C. Ward, a public affairs representative for the DOE, Tulsa, Okla.

Monday's flight was the latest test in the Air Force's effort to certify its entire fleet of fighters, tankers, aircraft cargo jets and bombers to use this fuel mix by 2011, according to the Air Force Times.

In September 2006, Rich was present at Edwards Air Force Base in California to watch the test flight of a synthetic fuel-powered B-52.

Today, the B-52 bomber is certified. The Air Force expects full certification for the C-17 by May and is hoping to build the market so it can provide about 400 million gallons of synthetic fuel to the service by 2016.

"This is where we're headed, so we're not at the mercy of off-shore suppliers,"? Rich said.

Rich is anxious to become part of that process and to establish a $1 billion coal gasification plant in Mahanoy Township. He said he's still awaiting the green light from DOE.

In October, DOE delivered its Final Environmental Impact Study for the Gilberton Coal-To-Clean Fuels and Power Project after working on the study for nearly two years.

In it, DOE tentatively approved the $1 billion project, but the administration has yet to formally announce whether it will give the project the green light and a $100 million loan, according to Joe W. Culver, DOE spokesman, Morgantown, W.Va.

On Nov. 2, a "Notice of Availability"? for the study was published in the National Register. After a 30-day waiting period that ended Dec. 3, and the department started preparing a record of decision, Culver said.

When asked when this decision will be made, Culver said, "I would think no later than fairly early in 2008."?

In November, Rich discussed how he planned to finance the project. He said 10 percent of the $1 billion will be provided in the form of a loan from DOE, another $47 million will come from a state transferable tax credit and the rest would come from loans and private sector investments.

According to the Environmental Impact Study and Rich, the proposed plant will produce 3,700 barrels of diesel fuel per day and 1,300 barrels of Naphtha, a low-octane, zero-sulfur gasoline, per day.
http://www.ultracleanfuels.com/artic...can_122107.htm

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BlueWahooChambor</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Spuds</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yes unleaded 87 has under gone a revolution. You scratch your paper, I'll deal with the ICEs. </div></div>
gas hasnt but the technology we use in cars has

emissions and gas mileage for example were things that nobody thought about then but are now becoming more and more regulated everyday

look at the CAFE regulations and what has changed since it was first started in 1975.....and how its changed since......then tell me that nothing has changed

then look at emmissions standards and EPA regulations since then and tell me its still the same

this is what happens when you let these nutjobs control your policy.......you wind up backed into a corner


</div></div>Actually there was a gas guzzler tax that was killed right as it was supposed to go into action by a president. It would have killed Chevrolet, they would have to have sold 15 Chevettes for every Caddy not to have to pay the tax , Chrysler was the only American auto maker in position to meet it. Remember the K-cars, That is what they were set up for. Prez backed out. But I do agree, oil men are nuts.

[BlueWahooChambordDevil]

the thing is we control our own military technology

when it comes to cars, boats, commercial aircraft, trucks, famr equipment, etc.......we no longer manfacture the majority of it

we would then have to find the ability to mass produce a fuel like this for those cars, trucks, etc

as i said earlier.......i think its a viable long term solution.......but not short term.......and short term is where we need the most help

[BlueWahooChambordDevil]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Spuds</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BlueWahooChambor</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Spuds</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yes unleaded 87 has under gone a revolution. You scratch your paper, I'll deal with the ICEs. </div></div>
gas hasnt but the technology we use in cars has

emissions and gas mileage for example were things that nobody thought about then but are now becoming more and more regulated everyday

look at the CAFE regulations and what has changed since it was first started in 1975.....and how its changed since......then tell me that nothing has changed

then look at emmissions standards and EPA regulations since then and tell me its still the same

this is what happens when you let these nutjobs control your policy.......you wind up backed into a corner


</div></div>Actually there was a gas guzzler tax that was killed right as it was supposed to go into action by a president. It would have killed Chevrolet, they would have to have sold 15 Chevettes for every Caddy not to have to pay the tax , Chrysler was the only American auto maker in position to meet it. Remember the K-cars, That is what they were set up for. Prez backed out. But I do agree, oil men are nuts. </div></div>
but there is a gas guzzler tax now that we pay and aurtomakrer also get taxed on them as well

but seriously look at how much the CAFE regulations have changed since it was first started in 1975

thats a big change.......which is why that technology we had back then is basically obsolete now

while the basic premise would be the same.......so much would have to be done to bring it up to meet the new standards it would take alot of time and money before its a commercially viable option

"we would then have to find the ability to mass produce a fuel like this for those cars, trucks, etc" [img]/LDPforum/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crazy.gif[/img]
I can tell your confused, so this is my last try. You just said we don't make our own stuff, so they will build whatever we tell them. The airforce just flew across the country on the stuff. The only real diff between old cars and the new ones are the fuel inj and the computers, the computers make them easier to compesate for what ever you want. Sorta like turning on and off the NO2. We can do this as fast as we can build a new refinery. But you are still stuck on the same note. Aerosmith, Dream On. PS, if it isn't burning oil there aren't going to be milage requirements.

[burton2019]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CoeburnCane</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm of the mind that it's going to take a major energy technology upgrade/finding to pull us out of this jam we're in. Anyone care to co-sign?

I don't think we can get out of this by drilling in another place alone. I think the only real solution is for someone to find a new way to do things better than what we're doing it now--either with oil or with alternate sources of energy. </div></div>


I'll co-sign on this one.

[BlueWahooChambordDevil]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Spuds</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"we would then have to find the ability to mass produce a fuel like this for those cars, trucks, etc" [img]/LDPforum/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crazy.gif[/img]
I can tell your confused, so this is my last try. You just said we don't make our own stuff, so they will build whatever we tell them. The airforce just flew across the country on the stuff. The only real diff between old cars and the new ones are the fuel inj and the computers, the computers make them easier to compesate for what ever you want. Sorta like turning on and off the NO2. We can do this as fast as we can build a new refinery. But you are still stuck on the same note. Aerosmith, Dream On. </div></div>
no.....you are the one who is confused

what i said is that with anything for the miliatry we call our own shots.....and can produce a fuel according to what we are using

when it comes to autos it isnt that easy because we no longer manfacture the bulk of what we use

so we would first have to get the foreign makers to change their technology for what we want, or build them all ourselves

as for the difference in cars.......there are two other very big differences........see my post above to figure it out

then we would have to develop a way to mass produce a fuel that can be used in autos because im sure youa re smart enough to understand that you arent going to pull a military jet into your local exxon or shell to fill it up

thats a completely different grade of fuel for a totally different kind of technology

[sup-rbeast]

Technology in cars hasn't changed that much...plus, they STILL RUN ON GAS. Gas could be made from coal 80 years ago...and the same process would still provide gas for cars today. Hell, cars will run on moonshine if ya know where to get it. You're right tho BWC, things are about to change...and we may take a step back to make any progress. But that gas made from coal wasn't really bad at all. I can remember when it was used. But a gasoline engine today will run on the same gasoline that cars did 30 years ago...just kinda cuts out the oil man.

[BlueWahooChambordDevil]

it isnt that its a difference process.......but its the changes that have been made elsewhere (emissions/epa for example) that we would need to implement......and thats what makes it alot difference than simply a basic primative technology